Espionage is often seen as a mysterious world confined to the movies—a world where hidden actors walk in the shadows. But listening to someone who has lived through the deepest secrets of that world offers a unique opportunity to understand how real intelligence truly works.
In this interview, James C. Lawler, one of the CIA’s legendary operations officers, discusses openly the nature of human intelligence (HUMINT) and how spies are identified, recruited, and managed over the long term.
In response to questions posed by Dr. Hasan Mesut Önder, Lawler provides sincere and experience-rich answers that unveil the psychological strategies behind espionage—empathy, the role of stress, the “metaphysical bond,” and the crafting of cover stories. Claiming that it is possible to recruit spies by establishing a “quasi-hypnotic” connection, Lawler boldly states: “I never recruited a happy person as a spy.” With this, he overturns many clichés about the intelligence field.
This conversation opens a window into the invisible face of the intelligence world, offering striking insights for security professionals and anyone interested in human psychology and the dark corridors of international relations.
About James C. Lawler
James C. Lawler served a 25-year career in the CIA, where he played critical roles in preventing the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. He was the chief of the Special Activities Unit in the CIA’s Counterproliferation Division and completed five overseas assignments between 1982 and 1994.
From 1998 to 2005, he was a member of the CIA’s Senior Intelligence Service (SIS-3). Specializing in the recruitment of foreign spies, he spent over half of his CIA career fighting the spread of weapons of mass destruction. He played a key role in dismantling the A.Q. Khan nuclear network—a success for which he was awarded the CIA’s Trailblazer Award in 2007.
In 2004, former CIA Director George Tenet wrote to Lawler:
“Jim, what you and your team have accomplished will be remembered as one of the most spectacular intelligence successes in CIA history. This happened because of your exemplary leadership. Thanks to your vital work, we’re not just taking down a network—we’re disarming a nation. With great respect, George J. Tenet.”
Former CIA Deputy Director John McLaughlin praised Lawler’s achievement, describing it as “the closest thing I’ve ever seen to a perfect intelligence operation.”
James C. Lawler received the CIA Director’s Award, the U.S. Intelligence Community HUMINT Collector of the Year Award, and the Donovan Award from the CIA’s Deputy Director for Operations.
As an author, he has written two espionage novels: Living Lies (2021) and In the Twinkling of an Eye (2022), both approved by the CIA’s Publications Review Board. Living Lies was ranked 38th on Spyscape’s “Top 50 Spy Novels” list in 2022. His third novel, The Traitor’s Tale, was published in 2025.
Dr. Hasan Mesut Önder: Mr. Lawler, thank you for taking the time to speak with me. In today’s world, technical methods of intelligence collection are highly emphasized. Where do you see the place of human intelligence (HUMINT) compared to these other methods?
James C. Lawler: Thank you, Dr. Önder. Technical intelligence certainly plays an important role, but human intelligence is unmatched when it comes to uncovering true plans and intentions. A well-placed spy can provide insight that no technical method can reach. I’ve had recruited assets tell me that technical reports often reflect aspirations or exaggerated projections, but real intentions—those that truly matter—reside only in the minds of leaders. You won’t find those on a document, in an email, or on a call.
Dr. Önder: From your experience, what emotional and cognitive traits define a good CIA recruiter?
Lawler: I’ve narrowed it down to ten essential traits:
- Curiosity
- Keen listening ability
- Extreme empathy
- Patience
- Persistence and laser-like focus
- Creativity
- A sharp eye for stressors in people’s lives
- Ruthlessness—by that I mean the courage to face rejection and never forgetting your mission
- A powerful or persuasive personality
- Mastery of “metaphysics”—the invisible neural link between recruiter and target that can’t be measured, only sensed.
Dr. Önder: Before approaching someone for recruitment, how do you spot a potential spy? Dr. Ursula M. Wilder suggests that a person must have a dysfunctional personality, a personal crisis, and easy access to information to be recruitable. As someone known as a “soul catcher,” how do you psychologically profile a potential asset?
Lawler: I agree with Dr. Wilder. In my experience, happy or well-balanced people don’t become spies. The most recruitable individuals are those under some form of emotional or financial stress, those desperate or looking for revenge. I’ve developed a talent for spotting those “cracks.” I used to rock climb, and just like you look for tiny cracks to place your fingers and toes, I look for stress fractures in people’s lives. I have a soothing voice and I don’t judge. People open up to me. One of my assets once told me that listening to me felt like her brain was in a warm waterbed.
Dr. Önder: In one of your talks, you mentioned that anyone under stress can be recruited, except for happy people. Could you elaborate? Is the stress alone enough?
Lawler: I believe I covered that in the previous answer. But yes—stress creates emotional and cognitive cracks. If you know how to identify and work through those cracks, recruitment becomes possible.
Dr. Önder: Is there a link between the case officer’s cover story and the target’s profession or tendencies? Or are cover stories prepared in a standardized way by intelligence services?
Lawler: Cover stories should be flexible and designed to build trust. They are just tools to begin a relationship and to assess the target’s access and stress levels. Interestingly, if a target sees through your cover, that’s not necessarily bad—it could actually lead them to volunteer.
Dr. Önder: What makes a good cover story? Should it relate to the case officer’s real life?
Lawler: Absolutely. I prefer cover stories that are adaptable. As the saying goes, no battle plan survives first contact with the enemy. My covers usually included elements of my actual background. For example, I was a lawyer before joining the CIA, which gave me a very versatile and believable cover.
Dr. Önder: After contact is made with a potential spy, how do you conduct psychological profiling and what information do you gather?
Lawler: I collect as much personal information as possible. I’m genuinely curious and love getting people to talk about themselves—which, honestly, most people want to do anyway. Because of this, targets rarely questioned my cover; they weren’t interested in me. They were interested in themselves, and so was I.
Dr. Önder: You once said that recruitment has a metaphysical side, and some of your spies said talking to you felt like their brain was floating in warm water. I’ve been thinking about that for a year. Some studies suggest that spies develop an alter identity. Do you believe there’s a quasi-hypnotic bond between spy and case officer?
Lawler: Yes, I do. One of my students once said I reminded them of Dr. Milton Erickson, the father of hypnotherapy. I modulate my voice, tell stories, and draw people in. There’s definitely something metaphysical about it. It can’t be proven scientifically, but it’s real. Even if all it does is give me more self-confidence—that alone is powerful. Spies need to sense your confidence and professionalism. Trust is the foundation of any human relationship, be it espionage or love.
Dr. Önder: Israeli experts argue that a person must survive an intense personal crisis to become a productive spy. They claim spy productivity increases if they’ve mentally absorbed worst-case scenarios. What are your thoughts? Do case officers prepare spies for such mental burdens?
Lawler: Absolutely. Once you’ve recruited someone, their safety becomes your top priority. You must minimize their risk and constantly “re-recruit” them—make them feel special, valued, and motivated. Praise is more powerful than money in many cases.
Dr. Önder: Some espionage cases that have been exposed show that spies were pushed to gather intelligence beyond their natural access, which led to their capture. How does a good case officer keep a spy working safely for a long time?
Lawler: A good officer never pushes a spy beyond their natural access. That’s irresponsible. I always reviewed what my asset could reasonably and safely access. If something felt risky, I advised them against it. Their security was always my number one concern.
Dr. Önder: Finally, in your opinion, which intelligence organizations are the most effective in HUMINT operations?
Lawler: I’d say the CIA, Britain’s MI6, Israel’s Mossad, as well as the services of China, Russia, and Cuba are the most skilled in conducting effective HUMINT operations.
